It was probably the easiest month he ever had, given his decades of experience.
[But oh, that's sure a question, Nat. He's quiet for a moment, not because it's hard to answer, exactly, but it's hard to put into the right words.]
Pretty different, in a lot of ways. Not different at all, in some. There's a part of that man that will always be the same, no matter the universe, but... they're not the same person. They haven't been for a long time.
[ she's aware there's some differences, given the shortened name to a single letter. or it could very well be to distinguish between the two. may even be both. natasha wouldn't assume. ]
I guess it doesn't matter too much now. You seem happy and content and that's what's important.
[He makes a noise that's not a sigh, not a laugh, not a scoff... maybe some mix of all three, maybe something else.
Then he spends a minute debating saying the first thing that comes to mind.
Then he does:] I am.
[He hesitates again, after that, like he expects that admitting it will cause something terrible to happen.
It might, but at least it doesn't happen immediately.
So, then he says the second thing that comes to mind.] He's - I think he understands me better. B, I mean. More than Bucky did.
[He kind of cringes as he says it, and is glad he can hide it behind the audio. It feels like speaking ill of the dead, like going back on vows he made, even though it is neither of those things.]
[ she's known her steve long enough to know what all that quiet on his end is him carefully trying not to jinx himself and the worry lines are starting to show on his forehead. but she stops herself from cracking a joke about it because this is one time that she wants to be the supporting friend when he's done it for her enough times she's lost count.
still, it's hard to fathom how two of the same people could be different and she wonders about the other versions of herself that came before her. ]
Good.
[ there's a hint of envy in her voice, though it's gone when she continues. ]
You deserve that. For as long as you've been here, I'm sorry you had to wait so long.
[Now he huffs out something approximating a laugh. Because if he doesn't laugh about it...]
Well, to be fair, it's probably because I've been here so long.
[Part of him wonders if he's even recognizable at all, anymore. And all of him doesn't like the envy in her voice, though maybe not for the obvious reasons.]
Which is also why I would advise dying as few times as you can, [he adds, because he would like a subject change, please.]
[ that's not true. she misses her adopted family - Clint, Laura and the kids, Bruce, among others. but she also misses those people who were lost along the way. ]
[It's a soft, honest question, tinged with no small amount of sadness to hear it, honestly.
He wants to say more, but it's not his to say. So he just adds, nonspecifically,] You wouldn't be the first person who showed up here thinking that, if you mean it. Not by far.
[ She stares off for a moment, recalling the conversation she and Yelena had shortly after the pairings were announced and the request she made to the Admiral that he reconsider. She knows Steve is too close to it all and there's no doubt in her mind that if it came down to it, he'd side with B. Just as she will side with her sister. ]
She never got the deprogramming that SHIELD gave me, so she needs time above everything else. I know that's not a lot to offer, but she doesn't trust anyone and like someone else you know, earning trust is going to be slow and steady.
[ Steve needs to understand that the Admiral pairing her and B together was perhaps the dumbest mistake ever where it comes to helping Yelena. In fact, Natasha is worried about it doing the opposite. Forcing someone to wipe the red out of their ledger by giving them a red marker is counterproductive. Bucky had a hand in their training -- training that was used to benefit the Red Room and Dreykov each. How does seeing him not morph into the same gruelling training as it did back then?
Natasha lets out a breath she hadn't realized she'd been holding and it signals her frustration. ]
[For what it's worth, he would try not to simply side with B. He would try to be objective.
But Steve Rogers is, admittedly, bad at objectivity.
He did mean it when he asked for advice, though, and he nods slowly, considering what she's saying.]
Well, if anyone has anything here, it's generally time.
[Generally.]
And if you want someone who won't push? B is your man.
[Steve pushes. He can't ever leave well enough alone. He knows it, and he knows that even when he's trying to be patient, he can come off as overbearing. He's been told as much.
But he does sincerely believe that B will sit back and wait for as long as it takes. No matter how much it hurts him.
And Steve will try too, then, if that's what Natasha suggests.]
You know patience isn't my strong suit, but if that's what it's gonna take, then I'll try to follow - [He almost says his lead, B's lead, but decides, instead, on a similar truth:] your lead.
I don't know how to deprogram somebody. Other than just... butting up against their worldview, whether you mean to or not, until they have to change it.
[ or her, for that matter. not when the both of them have far too much experience with orders and expectations and handlers who do and have both. a warden is exactly what her sister doesn't need, right now and while it's easier to simply state the truth -- that B will be no different than a handler in the broad scope of things -- natasha hopes she won't have to. not with Steve.
even still, her tone isn't convinced this is any kind of good situation. ]
If I know her at all, she's going to oppose the entire system. Not just B.
[ god, she wishes Clint were here to help with this conversation.
[Steve would say he's trying not to take sides in this conversation - he's not - but when she says that when she suggests -]
He's not. Nat - he would never. Ever.
Trust me.
If you can't trust him.
[Yes, he's biased. He knows he's biased. And yet he truly believes what he's saying, too. Inmates are not pet projects. Not to Steve. And not to B.]
She's a person. Everyone here is. No one here is a project. Or payment.
And I hate that the Admiral has a system where it can even seem that way. Where some people act like it is. But he won't. I wouldn't allow it, either, but he won't.
[ They're both biased, which makes this conversation harder than it should be. Neither wants the person they care about to be seen as the problem. But, there's an elephant in the room where it comes to the pairing and it isn't an easy thing to think about, let alone discuss.
She looks long and hard at Steve and she trusts him implicitly. More than she ever has with anyone else, apart from Clint.
Nodding, it occurs to her to ask: ]
Do you know why I'm so concerned? Beyond the fact Yelena is my sister?
[That's a good thing to ask, honestly, because:] No, [he says, quietly.] I don't.
[It's not dismissive. It's open. If she has concerns, he wants to hear them. He can't promise he will side with her, but he wants to hear what she thinks. Always.]
He was there, as the Winter Soldier. In the Red Room. He trained the both of us.
[ she nods. ]
I know he's made progress here to shed that identity and heal because what they did to him was no different than what happened to us. SHIELD deprogrammed me, but Yelena?
[ a weighted pause. ]
He's a link to a past she hasn't had enough time to work through.
[Okay, Steve knows that much at least. Although admittedly, he'd learned a lot of it from a different Natasha, so he can't ever be sure what's the same and what's not.]
Well - there's nothing but time, here, [he says, quietly.] At least, in between the chaos.
He can be patient. We both can. We'll be here as long as she needs.
[Even if Steve never talks to Yelena, he will be here for B, and he won't rush him.]
This place may not give her space. But it will give her time.
Nat, it's a closed system. Trust me - even when you want to avoid people, you can't.
[He takes a breath, holds it for a long moment. Lets it out.]
I - know this is going to sound patronizing and hypocritical. But - the fact that I think B will give her time and space aside - how is she going to get out of here if she just sits around and does nothing about the way she feels about him?
If nothing else, the Barge makes you fucking face your demons. It's cruel, but it has its merits.
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Re: audio
[But oh, that's sure a question, Nat. He's quiet for a moment, not because it's hard to answer, exactly, but it's hard to put into the right words.]
Pretty different, in a lot of ways. Not different at all, in some. There's a part of that man that will always be the same, no matter the universe, but... they're not the same person. They haven't been for a long time.
Re: audio
I guess it doesn't matter too much now. You seem happy and content and that's what's important.
Re: audio
Then he spends a minute debating saying the first thing that comes to mind.
Then he does:] I am.
[He hesitates again, after that, like he expects that admitting it will cause something terrible to happen.
It might, but at least it doesn't happen immediately.
So, then he says the second thing that comes to mind.] He's - I think he understands me better. B, I mean. More than Bucky did.
[He kind of cringes as he says it, and is glad he can hide it behind the audio. It feels like speaking ill of the dead, like going back on vows he made, even though it is neither of those things.]
Re: audio
still, it's hard to fathom how two of the same people could be different and she wonders about the other versions of herself that came before her. ]
Good.
[ there's a hint of envy in her voice, though it's gone when she continues. ]
You deserve that. For as long as you've been here, I'm sorry you had to wait so long.
Re: audio
Well, to be fair, it's probably because I've been here so long.
[Part of him wonders if he's even recognizable at all, anymore. And all of him doesn't like the envy in her voice, though maybe not for the obvious reasons.]
Which is also why I would advise dying as few times as you can, [he adds, because he would like a subject change, please.]
Re: audio
[ especially if it's death by falling.
thoughtful pause. ]
I suppose here is better than back there anyway.
[ that's not true. she misses her adopted family - Clint, Laura and the kids, Bruce, among others. but she also misses those people who were lost along the way. ]
Re: audio
[It's a soft, honest question, tinged with no small amount of sadness to hear it, honestly.
He wants to say more, but it's not his to say. So he just adds, nonspecifically,] You wouldn't be the first person who showed up here thinking that, if you mean it. Not by far.
Re: audio
[ natasha shoots back but it's more of a friendly return than a confrontational one. he's a warden who's been there for longer than most there. ]
My purpose is done there, we both know that. If me being brought back here is to see Yelena graduate then that's why I'm here.
Re: audio
[Because there he goes again, being painfully honest.
But he appreciates her honesty, too, even if he maybe hopes she gets more out of this than just that.
But he understands being willing to take what you can get. It's not something you can change overnight.]
We'll get her out of here. You're probably the one who has the most insight on how to do it. So, I'm open to advice.
[He won't go against anything B's asked him to do or not do, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to hear Natasha's thoughts.]
Re: audio
She never got the deprogramming that SHIELD gave me, so she needs time above everything else. I know that's not a lot to offer, but she doesn't trust anyone and like someone else you know, earning trust is going to be slow and steady.
[ Steve needs to understand that the Admiral pairing her and B together was perhaps the dumbest mistake ever where it comes to helping Yelena. In fact, Natasha is worried about it doing the opposite. Forcing someone to wipe the red out of their ledger by giving them a red marker is counterproductive. Bucky had a hand in their training -- training that was used to benefit the Red Room and Dreykov each. How does seeing him not morph into the same gruelling training as it did back then?
Natasha lets out a breath she hadn't realized she'd been holding and it signals her frustration. ]
The point is not to push her.
Re: audio
But Steve Rogers is, admittedly, bad at objectivity.
He did mean it when he asked for advice, though, and he nods slowly, considering what she's saying.]
Well, if anyone has anything here, it's generally time.
[Generally.]
And if you want someone who won't push? B is your man.
[Steve pushes. He can't ever leave well enough alone. He knows it, and he knows that even when he's trying to be patient, he can come off as overbearing. He's been told as much.
But he does sincerely believe that B will sit back and wait for as long as it takes. No matter how much it hurts him.
And Steve will try too, then, if that's what Natasha suggests.]
You know patience isn't my strong suit, but if that's what it's gonna take, then I'll try to follow - [He almost says his lead, B's lead, but decides, instead, on a similar truth:] your lead.
I don't know how to deprogram somebody. Other than just... butting up against their worldview, whether you mean to or not, until they have to change it.
Re: audio
[ or her, for that matter. not when the both of them have far too much experience with orders and expectations and handlers who do and have both. a warden is exactly what her sister doesn't need, right now and while it's easier to simply state the truth -- that B will be no different than a handler in the broad scope of things -- natasha hopes she won't have to. not with Steve.
even still, her tone isn't convinced this is any kind of good situation. ]
If I know her at all, she's going to oppose the entire system. Not just B.
[ god, she wishes Clint were here to help with this conversation.
after a moment: ]
He can't treat her like a pet project.
[ another pause. ]
I won't allow it.
Re: audio
He's not. Nat - he would never. Ever.
Trust me.
If you can't trust him.
[Yes, he's biased. He knows he's biased. And yet he truly believes what he's saying, too. Inmates are not pet projects. Not to Steve. And not to B.]
She's a person. Everyone here is. No one here is a project. Or payment.
And I hate that the Admiral has a system where it can even seem that way. Where some people act like it is. But he won't. I wouldn't allow it, either, but he won't.
Re: audio
She looks long and hard at Steve and she trusts him implicitly. More than she ever has with anyone else, apart from Clint.
Nodding, it occurs to her to ask: ]
Do you know why I'm so concerned? Beyond the fact Yelena is my sister?
Re: audio
[It's not dismissive. It's open. If she has concerns, he wants to hear them. He can't promise he will side with her, but he wants to hear what she thinks. Always.]
Re: audio
[ she nods. ]
I know he's made progress here to shed that identity and heal because what they did to him was no different than what happened to us. SHIELD deprogrammed me, but Yelena?
[ a weighted pause. ]
He's a link to a past she hasn't had enough time to work through.
Re: audio
Well - there's nothing but time, here, [he says, quietly.] At least, in between the chaos.
He can be patient. We both can. We'll be here as long as she needs.
[Even if Steve never talks to Yelena, he will be here for B, and he won't rush him.]
This place may not give her space. But it will give her time.
Re: audio
[ the question comes quicker than she expected it to. ]
Re: audio
[He takes a breath, holds it for a long moment. Lets it out.]
I - know this is going to sound patronizing and hypocritical. But - the fact that I think B will give her time and space aside - how is she going to get out of here if she just sits around and does nothing about the way she feels about him?
If nothing else, the Barge makes you fucking face your demons. It's cruel, but it has its merits.